“But brahmin, is it possible to set aside one of these three factors and still rightly describe someone as a brahmin?” “It is possible, worthy Gotama. We could leave birth out of the three factors. For what does birth matter? It’s when a brahmin is ethical, mature in ethical conduct; and he’s astute and intelligent, being the first or second to hold the sacrificial ladle. A brahmin must possess these two factors for the brahmins to rightly describe him as a brahmin.”

When he had spoken, those brahmins said to him, “Please don’t say that, worthy Soṇadaṇḍa, please don’t say that! You’re just condemning appearance, the hymns, and birth! You’re totally going over to the ascetic Gotama’s doctrine!”

So the Buddha said to them, “Well, brahmins, if you think that Soṇadaṇḍa is unlearned, a poor speaker, witless, and not capable of debating with me about this, then leave him aside and you can debate with me. But if you think that he’s learned, a good speaker who enunciates well, astute, and capable of debating with me about this, then you should stand aside and let him debate with me.”